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	<title>Comments for Holding Forth</title>
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	<description>David A. Parker on art, etc. in Chicago and beyond</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 23:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Thinking the way forward by David A. Parker</title>
		<link>http://www.dparkerart.com/blog/?p=232&#038;cpage=1#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>David A. Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Nov 2010 00:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dparkerart.com/blog/?p=232#comment-7</guid>
		<description>I have been struggling a bit with how to reply to Rick's position.  It may be that he (like Tom Friedman) seems to address society on a macro level, whereas I am focused on the immediate, individual level of what I have to do to get through today, and move forward toward a better tomorrow (whatever that may mean).  In this regard, I read something powerful from Saul Bellow, a man about whom I know too little, but who was apparently after a "vernacular sublime."  He wrote in a 2002 letter: &lt;b&gt;To fall into despair is just a high-class way of turning into a dope. I choose to laugh, and laugh at myself no less than at others.&lt;/b&gt;  For the whole article, see this link: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/books/review/Wieseltier-t.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been struggling a bit with how to reply to Rick&#8217;s position.  It may be that he (like Tom Friedman) seems to address society on a macro level, whereas I am focused on the immediate, individual level of what I have to do to get through today, and move forward toward a better tomorrow (whatever that may mean).  In this regard, I read something powerful from Saul Bellow, a man about whom I know too little, but who was apparently after a &#8220;vernacular sublime.&#8221;  He wrote in a 2002 letter: <b>To fall into despair is just a high-class way of turning into a dope. I choose to laugh, and laugh at myself no less than at others.</b>  For the whole article, see this link: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/books/review/Wieseltier-t.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/books/review/Wieseltier-t.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Thinking the way forward by David A. Parker</title>
		<link>http://www.dparkerart.com/blog/?p=232&#038;cpage=1#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>David A. Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Nov 2010 19:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dparkerart.com/blog/?p=232#comment-6</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Rick OK'd my posting this email he sent to me privately - dap &lt;/em&gt;

...regarding "innovation" how come I'm the only one who's tired of people talking 'change, adaptability, innovation,' who don't see all of these things as they are, embedded in a privileging of Western thought and values which simply translates to same-old same-old. My problem with Friedman, for instance, who I continue to struggle *not* to love, is that in the end he, like everyone else, celebrates the very thing which has made him successful. He, like me, is anything but gloomy in his outlook, but of course it's at least in part because his particular voice about what's wrong has taken hold, so why would he, in particular, be gloomy?

It's hard not to see the drive to "innovate" as still more of our proud American can-do-ism. It's hard not to see your narrative about making art, embedded in the same narrative about how there will be technological solutions to the destructions made possible by technologies. Innovation for its own sake is never art. But the challenges posed against humanity - by technology, for instance - constantly raise the stakes for artists who are by definition the avant-garde of humanity. I mean, I think that's what art means. The alternative is beastly.

Your photography - your conception - is surely art. It grabs at that level beneath what I can know or delineate by words or verisimilitude. It is an expression raw from the landscape of what has happened to the landscape, but by its re-presentation it evokes that which is most essential to evoke. We expose our remains. We unearth fossils. We bury our dead in thin air and all that we do decomposes instantly, because it was too much concerned with innovation and not enough with permanence. 

 . . . . and, the reason I remain so optimistic, should you really want to know (ha ha, as though I'm giving you a choice), is precisely because we in the West remain so Western, and therefore, since we can't see it coming, will do absolutely nothing to stop the real "solution" to our despair. As subject is subsumed in object, as we can no longer maintain the fiction that we are conscious actors apart from that which we only seem to control, as, finally, the subject/object boundaries dissolve into something that Rand Paul is utterly clueless about when he says that the rich and poor are all one, we will no longer notice our own predations because they will have ceased to be so.

So . . . 

All best, 

Rick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Rick OK&#8217;d my posting this email he sent to me privately - dap </em></p>
<p>&#8230;regarding &#8220;innovation&#8221; how come I&#8217;m the only one who&#8217;s tired of people talking &#8216;change, adaptability, innovation,&#8217; who don&#8217;t see all of these things as they are, embedded in a privileging of Western thought and values which simply translates to same-old same-old. My problem with Friedman, for instance, who I continue to struggle *not* to love, is that in the end he, like everyone else, celebrates the very thing which has made him successful. He, like me, is anything but gloomy in his outlook, but of course it&#8217;s at least in part because his particular voice about what&#8217;s wrong has taken hold, so why would he, in particular, be gloomy?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard not to see the drive to &#8220;innovate&#8221; as still more of our proud American can-do-ism. It&#8217;s hard not to see your narrative about making art, embedded in the same narrative about how there will be technological solutions to the destructions made possible by technologies. Innovation for its own sake is never art. But the challenges posed against humanity - by technology, for instance - constantly raise the stakes for artists who are by definition the avant-garde of humanity. I mean, I think that&#8217;s what art means. The alternative is beastly.</p>
<p>Your photography - your conception - is surely art. It grabs at that level beneath what I can know or delineate by words or verisimilitude. It is an expression raw from the landscape of what has happened to the landscape, but by its re-presentation it evokes that which is most essential to evoke. We expose our remains. We unearth fossils. We bury our dead in thin air and all that we do decomposes instantly, because it was too much concerned with innovation and not enough with permanence. </p>
<p> . . . . and, the reason I remain so optimistic, should you really want to know (ha ha, as though I&#8217;m giving you a choice), is precisely because we in the West remain so Western, and therefore, since we can&#8217;t see it coming, will do absolutely nothing to stop the real &#8220;solution&#8221; to our despair. As subject is subsumed in object, as we can no longer maintain the fiction that we are conscious actors apart from that which we only seem to control, as, finally, the subject/object boundaries dissolve into something that Rand Paul is utterly clueless about when he says that the rich and poor are all one, we will no longer notice our own predations because they will have ceased to be so.</p>
<p>So . . . </p>
<p>All best, </p>
<p>Rick</p>
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		<title>Comment on Thinking the way forward by Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.dparkerart.com/blog/?p=232&#038;cpage=1#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Nov 2010 18:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dparkerart.com/blog/?p=232#comment-5</guid>
		<description>What despair? The only evident despair is from those whose struggle can never rise to the level of art. Expressions of despair among those with a voice to do so are almost always calls for more "innovation" when it's the drive for "innovation" in the first place which got us into trouble (assuming the "despair" you reference is what happens when you're up against the wall with no way out - the end-times of humanity as a plague on the planet). Solution: Art, of  course. But art is always the same - it's the context which "innovates." Anyhow, art is always conservative of the human.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What despair? The only evident despair is from those whose struggle can never rise to the level of art. Expressions of despair among those with a voice to do so are almost always calls for more &#8220;innovation&#8221; when it&#8217;s the drive for &#8220;innovation&#8221; in the first place which got us into trouble (assuming the &#8220;despair&#8221; you reference is what happens when you&#8217;re up against the wall with no way out - the end-times of humanity as a plague on the planet). Solution: Art, of  course. But art is always the same - it&#8217;s the context which &#8220;innovates.&#8221; Anyhow, art is always conservative of the human.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Income Options for Working Artists: Interview with Lynn Basa by lynn basa</title>
		<link>http://www.dparkerart.com/blog/?p=172&#038;cpage=1#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>lynn basa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dparkerart.com/blog/?p=172#comment-4</guid>
		<description>David, thanks so much for the plug.  Kathryn's a good interviewer so she got some of my best stuff!  I'm going to be following up with a series of articles for Chicago Art Magazine that explores the numerous income streams open to artists that they don't teach you about in art school. I hope you'll agree to be one of my subjects!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, thanks so much for the plug.  Kathryn&#8217;s a good interviewer so she got some of my best stuff!  I&#8217;m going to be following up with a series of articles for Chicago Art Magazine that explores the numerous income streams open to artists that they don&#8217;t teach you about in art school. I hope you&#8217;ll agree to be one of my subjects!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Chinese contemporary at MOMA, in &#8220;Art in America&#8221; by sylvainllevy</title>
		<link>http://www.dparkerart.com/blog/?p=101&#038;cpage=1#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>sylvainllevy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dpfa.net/blog/?p=101#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Why we have decided to collect chinese contemporary art ?

First reason : Art is  the mirror of a Society
Even if Art is more and more global, Art is also a product of language, geography and history. "Chinese contemporary art reflects Chinese modern life from every aspect including politics, economics and culture.
When we came for the first time in Shanghai in 2005 I felt that there was another logic here; something that speaks of a very schizophrenic attitude towards economic development, the city embodies a ceaseless pursuit of the “superhuman” that redefines traditional definitions of humanity, sustainability, scale, speed.  Somehow these feelings were very inspiring and we wanted to find art and artists that express the relationships between contemporary art production and society.
Second reason : China has a long cultural history
Culture exists in China for more than 5.000 years
Third reason : Collecting is the best way to connecting to people
Through this collection, we were able to meet a lot of people in China and to better understand chinese culture

What type of artists we are interested in ?

I am always keen to find individuals who are interested to see where the prevailing boundaries lie, either in terms of content, of materials, of disciplines and how they can push them open. That doesn’t just mean young artists.
I learned that contemporary Chinese art is as varied as its Western counterpart and, like that more familiar model, has its highly-visible personalities, auction house favorites and celebrities. But also, like the Euro/American scene, there are many Chinese, Taiwanese and other Asian artists who are laboring quietly in the vineyards, producing credible and beautiful work. Below I will mention some of the categories of artists that we are interested in and the most outstanding ones.

Firstly Artists who remains individuals, autonomous persons and who are nevertheless decisive factors within this general movement. 
For example Gu dexin.
 Beijing-based Gu Dexin, this most enigmatic and evasive figure within the contemporary Chinese art scene. His distrust in all systems and his objection to live his life according to conventions set by any social milieu made him choose retreat as a strategy, a retreat from obligations and mainstream that actually advances him in a position of relative freedom and autonomy.  He is one of the most respected artist by curators of all of the world

Secondly Artists who can implant and advance Chinese traditional painting, traditional Chinese aesthetics and thought into a contemporary context and thus reaching an ideal model of “cultural and individual autonomy” 
For example Yang Jiechang.
 His large inks are based on the traditional Chinese principle of the sublimation of the self to put forth the spiritual qualities inherent in the work and the material, which, on the conceptual level, means advancing through retreat and non-doing.

Third point: Artists who approach contemporary discourse through promoting local and vernacular culture.
For example Zheng Guogu with Yangjiang Group. 
Zheng Guogu who is one of the most famous artist from the young generation has decided to live at Yangjiang and not in Beijing By retreating to Yangjiang, on one hand, he creates a space for non-mainstream, locally-imbedded artistic imagination and creation. On the other hand by including those local outcomes in his projects he advances the local onto a global platform.



"Chinese contemporary art reflects Chinese modern life from every aspect including politics, economics and culture, which is quite valuable in recording the past 30 years since the reform and opening up policy," Wang said. 
Ye Yongqing, artistic director of the institute, explained that the organization will dedicate itself to academic research as well as education on contemporary art. A systematic project to analyze and promote the contemporary art industry will also be established. 
"Chinese contemporary art's success and development to a large extent has depended on independent artists and collectors, but from now on, there is a new platform to do all things related to contemporary art," Ye said. 
Ye added that unlike many art organizations that gather artists together and benefit from works created by them, the institute is more like a think tank, with the hope that experts will contribute their ideas and reflections on Chinese contemporary art's development. 
"Only with a formal institute is there hope that systematic research on contemporary art can be done," Ye said. Famous artist Luo Zhongli, also the director of Sichuan Academy of Fine Arts, has been appointed director of the new institute.
in conclusion, We are used to China's growing influence on the world economy—but could it also reshape our ideas about culture and specially contemporary art?
Why you should collect chinese contemporary art ?

The market for Chinese contemporary art pieces shows great potential, but at the same time, it faces many questions that had never arisen before.  It is constantly initiating contemplation and inquiry. 
There has been a lot of money flowing around the Chinese art scene over the past few years that has had a dramatic effect on the art scene and the nature of the art being produced
The market has come to occupy such a dominant position in the art world, often deciding “quality” and “importance”, most obviously in terms of Chinese art works and a local scene that does not enjoy the sobering influence of meaningful critical debate. Yet, at the same time, Chinese artists are often criticised for being overly commercial, while their understanding of how the art market functions is informed by their knowledge and experience of Western models.
Chinese artists, especially those in the so-called “millionaire’s club of painters”, have re-invented the art world for themselves and may or may not reap the windfall. They have played dealers and auction houses off against each other. They have dropped their own works into auction with relish and have manipulated their markets with a degree of savvy and bravado that has left many dealers stunned. This art is here to stay and, in my opinion, while European and American markets may plateau or even fall, the Asian markets will continue to climb. Why should not the best Asian artists be priced at the same levels as their western counterparts?
There has been a lot of money flowing around the Chinese art scene over the past few years that has had a dramatic effect on the art scene and the nature of the art being produced. This volume of funds is going to fluctuate in the coming year or so, which is not a bad thing. It might make artists reflect upon the quality of the work they are producing, and encourage some of the new galleries to formulate more productive strategies to deal with a slackening off in the market. So, hopefully, these recent events will have a positive impact.

Many people in China today are only just becoming aware of the contemporary art produced by local artists.
As two years ago, few could name even a single Chinese collector of contemporary art. It was a truism that the Chinese preferred to spend their money acquiring antiquities and classical works. Since then several well-known mainland collectors have emerged on the scene. 

Looking at the continued innovations of the older generations of artists, as well as the growing number of young graduates from art academies around the country, I think we can safely say that Chinese contemporary art is far from an imminent demise. It might have been a bit under the weather in recent months given the mood of the international and the domestic art markets (and the media), but being still young, vibrant
What are the difficulties in collecting Chinese contemporary art?
The biggest  difficulty comes in how to benchmark a work, Art is always about quality. The quality should be evaluated by experts, scholars, curators, and critics. The weakness of Chinese art scene is that critics and curators do not have much power. So their influence is very limited within the recent art market. 
Another important issue: How to determine  what is the good price of an artwork in that context knowing that specially on the Chinese market there could be a difference between a price asked and the real value of the work
To conclude, I shall say that The market for Chinese contemporary art pieces shows great potential, but at the same time, it faces many questions that had never arisen before.  It is constantly initiating contemplation and inquiry
So even as the market stumbles, and even as we hear rumours that almost a third of the galleries in China there are headed for extinction in the coming months as rents rise and sales drop, I can’t help but feel optimistic for the future.
sylvain levy
dsl collection</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why we have decided to collect chinese contemporary art ?</p>
<p>First reason : Art is  the mirror of a Society<br />
Even if Art is more and more global, Art is also a product of language, geography and history. &#8220;Chinese contemporary art reflects Chinese modern life from every aspect including politics, economics and culture.<br />
When we came for the first time in Shanghai in 2005 I felt that there was another logic here; something that speaks of a very schizophrenic attitude towards economic development, the city embodies a ceaseless pursuit of the “superhuman” that redefines traditional definitions of humanity, sustainability, scale, speed.  Somehow these feelings were very inspiring and we wanted to find art and artists that express the relationships between contemporary art production and society.<br />
Second reason : China has a long cultural history<br />
Culture exists in China for more than 5.000 years<br />
Third reason : Collecting is the best way to connecting to people<br />
Through this collection, we were able to meet a lot of people in China and to better understand chinese culture</p>
<p>What type of artists we are interested in ?</p>
<p>I am always keen to find individuals who are interested to see where the prevailing boundaries lie, either in terms of content, of materials, of disciplines and how they can push them open. That doesn’t just mean young artists.<br />
I learned that contemporary Chinese art is as varied as its Western counterpart and, like that more familiar model, has its highly-visible personalities, auction house favorites and celebrities. But also, like the Euro/American scene, there are many Chinese, Taiwanese and other Asian artists who are laboring quietly in the vineyards, producing credible and beautiful work. Below I will mention some of the categories of artists that we are interested in and the most outstanding ones.</p>
<p>Firstly Artists who remains individuals, autonomous persons and who are nevertheless decisive factors within this general movement.<br />
For example Gu dexin.<br />
 Beijing-based Gu Dexin, this most enigmatic and evasive figure within the contemporary Chinese art scene. His distrust in all systems and his objection to live his life according to conventions set by any social milieu made him choose retreat as a strategy, a retreat from obligations and mainstream that actually advances him in a position of relative freedom and autonomy.  He is one of the most respected artist by curators of all of the world</p>
<p>Secondly Artists who can implant and advance Chinese traditional painting, traditional Chinese aesthetics and thought into a contemporary context and thus reaching an ideal model of “cultural and individual autonomy”<br />
For example Yang Jiechang.<br />
 His large inks are based on the traditional Chinese principle of the sublimation of the self to put forth the spiritual qualities inherent in the work and the material, which, on the conceptual level, means advancing through retreat and non-doing.</p>
<p>Third point: Artists who approach contemporary discourse through promoting local and vernacular culture.<br />
For example Zheng Guogu with Yangjiang Group.<br />
Zheng Guogu who is one of the most famous artist from the young generation has decided to live at Yangjiang and not in Beijing By retreating to Yangjiang, on one hand, he creates a space for non-mainstream, locally-imbedded artistic imagination and creation. On the other hand by including those local outcomes in his projects he advances the local onto a global platform.</p>
<p>&#8220;Chinese contemporary art reflects Chinese modern life from every aspect including politics, economics and culture, which is quite valuable in recording the past 30 years since the reform and opening up policy,&#8221; Wang said.<br />
Ye Yongqing, artistic director of the institute, explained that the organization will dedicate itself to academic research as well as education on contemporary art. A systematic project to analyze and promote the contemporary art industry will also be established.<br />
&#8220;Chinese contemporary art&#8217;s success and development to a large extent has depended on independent artists and collectors, but from now on, there is a new platform to do all things related to contemporary art,&#8221; Ye said.<br />
Ye added that unlike many art organizations that gather artists together and benefit from works created by them, the institute is more like a think tank, with the hope that experts will contribute their ideas and reflections on Chinese contemporary art&#8217;s development.<br />
&#8220;Only with a formal institute is there hope that systematic research on contemporary art can be done,&#8221; Ye said. Famous artist Luo Zhongli, also the director of Sichuan Academy of Fine Arts, has been appointed director of the new institute.<br />
in conclusion, We are used to China&#8217;s growing influence on the world economy—but could it also reshape our ideas about culture and specially contemporary art?<br />
Why you should collect chinese contemporary art ?</p>
<p>The market for Chinese contemporary art pieces shows great potential, but at the same time, it faces many questions that had never arisen before.  It is constantly initiating contemplation and inquiry.<br />
There has been a lot of money flowing around the Chinese art scene over the past few years that has had a dramatic effect on the art scene and the nature of the art being produced<br />
The market has come to occupy such a dominant position in the art world, often deciding “quality” and “importance”, most obviously in terms of Chinese art works and a local scene that does not enjoy the sobering influence of meaningful critical debate. Yet, at the same time, Chinese artists are often criticised for being overly commercial, while their understanding of how the art market functions is informed by their knowledge and experience of Western models.<br />
Chinese artists, especially those in the so-called “millionaire’s club of painters”, have re-invented the art world for themselves and may or may not reap the windfall. They have played dealers and auction houses off against each other. They have dropped their own works into auction with relish and have manipulated their markets with a degree of savvy and bravado that has left many dealers stunned. This art is here to stay and, in my opinion, while European and American markets may plateau or even fall, the Asian markets will continue to climb. Why should not the best Asian artists be priced at the same levels as their western counterparts?<br />
There has been a lot of money flowing around the Chinese art scene over the past few years that has had a dramatic effect on the art scene and the nature of the art being produced. This volume of funds is going to fluctuate in the coming year or so, which is not a bad thing. It might make artists reflect upon the quality of the work they are producing, and encourage some of the new galleries to formulate more productive strategies to deal with a slackening off in the market. So, hopefully, these recent events will have a positive impact.</p>
<p>Many people in China today are only just becoming aware of the contemporary art produced by local artists.<br />
As two years ago, few could name even a single Chinese collector of contemporary art. It was a truism that the Chinese preferred to spend their money acquiring antiquities and classical works. Since then several well-known mainland collectors have emerged on the scene. </p>
<p>Looking at the continued innovations of the older generations of artists, as well as the growing number of young graduates from art academies around the country, I think we can safely say that Chinese contemporary art is far from an imminent demise. It might have been a bit under the weather in recent months given the mood of the international and the domestic art markets (and the media), but being still young, vibrant<br />
What are the difficulties in collecting Chinese contemporary art?<br />
The biggest  difficulty comes in how to benchmark a work, Art is always about quality. The quality should be evaluated by experts, scholars, curators, and critics. The weakness of Chinese art scene is that critics and curators do not have much power. So their influence is very limited within the recent art market.<br />
Another important issue: How to determine  what is the good price of an artwork in that context knowing that specially on the Chinese market there could be a difference between a price asked and the real value of the work<br />
To conclude, I shall say that The market for Chinese contemporary art pieces shows great potential, but at the same time, it faces many questions that had never arisen before.  It is constantly initiating contemplation and inquiry<br />
So even as the market stumbles, and even as we hear rumours that almost a third of the galleries in China there are headed for extinction in the coming months as rents rise and sales drop, I can’t help but feel optimistic for the future.<br />
sylvain levy<br />
dsl collection</p>
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		<title>Comment on Artists &amp; creatives: prime movers by catarzina</title>
		<link>http://www.dparkerart.com/blog/?p=61&#038;cpage=1#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>catarzina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dpfa.net/blog/?p=61#comment-2</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with your take on what I like to refer to as "creative drive".  Being a recent grad myself I know that I am spending more time making a career for myself rather than looking to fit into someone else's.  There is a company called Forward Progress that offers free webinars to take Social Networking to an all new business opportunity level.  They help link places like Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn and blogging together to create sales, appointments, leads, and such.  Thanks for the link to the Artists at Work Forum! 

It's funny, the Bauhaus is celebrating its 90th Anniversary this year. It just seems so appropriate since artists are using their wits and talents for support, just as they did at the Bauhaus.  Now more than ever it appears to me that artists are uniting together to provide opportunities and solutions to help each other.

I am a huge fan of Other Peoples Pixels too and refer people to them constantly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with your take on what I like to refer to as &#8220;creative drive&#8221;.  Being a recent grad myself I know that I am spending more time making a career for myself rather than looking to fit into someone else&#8217;s.  There is a company called Forward Progress that offers free webinars to take Social Networking to an all new business opportunity level.  They help link places like Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn and blogging together to create sales, appointments, leads, and such.  Thanks for the link to the Artists at Work Forum! </p>
<p>It&#8217;s funny, the Bauhaus is celebrating its 90th Anniversary this year. It just seems so appropriate since artists are using their wits and talents for support, just as they did at the Bauhaus.  Now more than ever it appears to me that artists are uniting together to provide opportunities and solutions to help each other.</p>
<p>I am a huge fan of Other Peoples Pixels too and refer people to them constantly!</p>
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